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11 May 2004 @ 06:06 am
Almost worse than the Iraqi prison scandal itself...  

One of my coworkers asked what I thought about "that Iraqi prison stuff." I said I thought it was thoroughly disgraceful that our soldiers were doing that.

His reply was along the lines of: "What's the big deal? Hey, they're prisoners, aren't they? They deserve what they're getting. Look what they did to those two contractors they killed and mutilated. Etc."

I'm very much afraid that his opinion is shared by far too many other Americans.

I grieve for my country....

Current Mood: disgusted
Current Music: John Prine, "Your Flag Decal Won't Get You into Heaven Anymore"
Larry Sandersonlsanderson on May 11th, 2004 04:10 am (UTC)
It is a looking glass world. Effect precedes cause.
ex_erikvolso370 on May 11th, 2004 04:18 am (UTC)
Yes. Esp. since the torture occured well before Fallujah. See, it's thier fault that they got mad about us torturing them.
Fred A Levy Haskell: eyes of Geri's Fredfredcritter on May 11th, 2004 04:48 am (UTC)

I don't think he was drawing a direct link — his reasoning isn't that clear. I believe he was merely using that as an "example" of what "those people are like" and why "they" don't deserve any respect or decency from us. Especially the "them" who are in prison — after all, nobody ever gets thrown in prison unless they're guilty of something. Right?

the laughing leaping waterminnehaha on May 11th, 2004 04:44 am (UTC)
Did you tell him that the rules of war called the Geneva Convention make that illegal?

Fred A Levy Haskell: eyes of the Fredcritterfredcritter on May 11th, 2004 04:50 am (UTC)

I think that was when he replied with his "point" about what "they" did to the bodies of the contractors… As if, you know, that had some bearing on anything at all.

Peter Hentgesjbru on May 11th, 2004 04:55 am (UTC)

Like I said in my journal a bit ago: the most telling thing I've seen lately was Rumsfeld declining to "answer the torture question" because the charges being filed were for "abuse."

I do not grieve for my country; I think my country survives in the majority of Americans and that it is only a small percentage that have put the current bunch in power. I remain hopeful that things can change come November and that the damage will be slight.
Mayor of "There"rmjwell on May 11th, 2004 06:05 am (UTC)
I think I will grieve my country more loudly
I would be tempted to ask the people who say such things, "If your son or daughter were imprisoned, would you want that happening to them?" No doubt they'll respond with something like, "My kids would never do anything like that!" Nod, and ask them to go along with the thought experiment. If they do and they say agree that they wouldn't want their kids undergoing such torments, quietly and peacefully remind them that those Iraquis are someone's sons and daughters.

My apologies if this sounds like I'm chiding you, Fred. I'm not intending it as such; your LJ was an opportune moment for me to crystalize some thoughts.
ask mevorona on May 11th, 2004 08:00 am (UTC)
I don't understand how people miss the concept that cruel, degrading behavior poisons the person doing it. I'm no pacifist. A bullet to the head of an enemy is appropriate, IMO. But participating in humiliation, enjoying torture? No, I don't get it. That's what I can't get around here. How did they think that this was a good idea for them?

I'm walking around feeling sick about this. It all has to come out, and we have to face it and deal with it.
Skylarkerskylarker on May 11th, 2004 10:57 am (UTC)
All too many people seem to be losing the distinction between 'suspicion' and 'conviction.' I'm hoping this situation will get the detainees back into the system where 'due process of law' means somethign.
   .numbat on May 18th, 2004 11:33 pm (UTC)
It's a common human reaction. Not matter where you look people are eager to use the line, 'but he started it' as a means of absolving themselves of all guilt. If 'he started it' there is apparently no reason to apportion blame or look at the situation from both sides. It's a bad habit all too many of us pick up as children and all too many of us never grow out of.